Remodeling refrigerator & stove area (was: electric fridge)

[Blue~Go]

Here is a closer view of the stove counter with a mocked up single burner stove.

And a view of the refrigerator area with one cardboard idea for shelves (which the shelves aren't actually in, as it's just a bare cardboard idea at this point). The "blank area" is where the compressor will go. And then there will be some sort of upper thing covering the indent for the vent - possibly an extension of the above-the-stove cabinet.

Haven't decided exactly how to handle the upper vent yet. The light is kind of nice I may remove the huge Dometic vent and close the rectangle off, then install two round marine vents, one for the compressor and one for the range vent. Still in the noodling stage.

Now on to structural notes, starting forward on the wall and moving aft.

First, the red arrows here show the big rectangle of 1" plywood that surrounds the window and then some. As you can see, the tail end runs into the stove area somewhat.

[Blue~Go]

Next, there are two strips of 4" tall, 1" thick plywood on the stove wall, one around counter height, and one up higher. The upper one is outlined in red here.

And here is the lower one (get a load of that "cavern" that is exposed when the oven is removed!). On the forward end, these butt up to the window wood panel.

As you can see, for now I have just boxed over the wheelwell/safe area - this was just to make the mockup simple for testing various ideas. The blue square is where the outdoor outlet box is behind the wall.

And here is the vertical strip, which is held in with strips of biaxial fiberglass.

It does some stiffening on its own, and actually the refrigerator plywood wall was not attached to it directly. However there was a combination of things that made it all stiff: This strip, the fact that the fridge surround was caulked to the wall, the fact that the stove counter was screwed to the wall, the microwave cabinet being screwed to the wall, etc. With these things removed (but the strip still there) the wall can flex - which is not good. Of course there are numerous ways to achieve the good state, one just has to have one or more appropriate ones in place. This is supposed to be a 1" thick, 2" wide, 36-1/2" tall strip; in reality, mine is a bit longer (downward), but close.

The "septum" wall was screwed into the overhead, one screw into the sandwiched wood area, and one that was just into the foam (I think). Not holding up the roof, but just one more piece of all the additive bits.

I think I will run a 3/4" x 3/4" curved-to-the-wall-shape stringer up that strip and anchor the "septum" wall to it, among other things.

[Blue~Go]

And here is the closet wall/outside wall joint area. Not much going on here structurally (actually it's a bit wank, not that it's actually caused any problems). I'll be replacing this wall, and possibly improving it somewhat, but with the same basic size/form. I'll be happy to haul out heavy MDF, and bring in plywood that is lighter and stronger (and nicer looking).

For now a few more mockups will be put in, with structural strength in mind so that I can drive/use the rig and know that it is at least slightly better than original (not that there was anything wrong before, but I mean I wanted to at least have it as good as original and likely a scoch better, even just for the functional mockup stage).

Thanks for the schematics! When I get my rig back, I'll take a close look.

They do really help - especially in the roof where you can't see it. (Whereas with the refrigerator out, you can actually peer behind the stove outer wall because it was not attached to the outside wall at all, but rather just held in place by the stove, etc.)

I like the idea of a vertical "septum" support. It solves the need for a continuous structural brace, it's not obtrusive... and, it made me realize the need for vertical "VENT SHAFT" space for the remote cooling unit at the cooktop back wall. The little bump-out at the back wall could also serve as a side attachment point for an additional "galley rail" spice rack under the microwave. My original plan had that wall up against the interior of the outside shell (duh). Proves that doing actual mockups is a better way to getting a clear picture.

Mockups are nice -- as is noodling ideas with a fellow Chinooker!

Here's a revised drawing. Take a look and see if this is what you were suggesting.

Your drawings are really nice and clear.

The only thing I see that I am doing differently, is that on my design (which you can see in the posts just before this), I have that ~9" deep "septum" running from the countertop to the bottom of the upper cabinet area. In my case it fits nicely with my design, so win/win. Without it at all, I don't like the "buckle point" just at the top of the counter. Not saying anything would actually happen, but I would be thinking about it on dirt roads/potholes/etc.

That said, you could get that same function with a MUCH slimmer member. Boats do this all the time (in the opposite direction) with stringers. Essentially a hollow form that is then fiberglassed into place (hat stringer, half piece of pipe or hose, etc.). But that means fiberglass grinding and mess. OTOH, with modern adhesives (and the relative lack of need for major support) you might be able to just bond something in place. OTOOH, a "rib" of plywood like I have (or smaller) is a simple/effective way, if the size/depth can worth with your design. I have extended it in a "C" shape up to the roof also. I will be replacing that wall with a new piece of wood (without the crude cuts!), but similar idea.

[HoosierB]

That said, you could get that same function with a MUCH slimmer member. Boats do this all the time (in the opposite direction) with stringers. Essentially a hollow form that is then fiberglassed into place (hat stringer, half piece of pipe or hose, etc.). But that means fiberglass grinding and mess. OTOH, with modern adhesives (and the relative lack of need for major support) you might be able to just bond something in place. OTOOH, a "rib" of plywood like I have (or smaller) is a simple/effective way, if the size/depth can worth with your design. I have extended it in a "C" shape up to the roof also. I will be replacing that wall with a new piece of wood (without the crude cuts!), but similar idea.

I understand the fiberglass issue having done Corvette, and high end replica car rest'os. And yes, I'm trying to avoid that mess. I may have found a compromise:
Using all the original ceiling attachment points for the micro box, I can still maintain it's reduced depth by duplicating the angle as in the dinette overhead cabinets. This will still minimize the "head banger" effect at the counter when doing meal prep, etc.. The added forward vertical panel (duplicating the "septum") at the dinette seat back will give support as well. The microwave "trim kit" is gone in favor of a simple open "box", allowing for a switchable LED light up inside the cabinet for additional light. Also, an LED recessed puck light sets in the hole of the old cut out for the monitor/vent wire harness. Here's a very rough perspective render of the idea. The "septum" bump-out, cooktop arrangement and fridge are in place, including the gratuitous galley-rail spice rack for OEM continuity .

You gotta luv all that newly acquired floorspace, not to mention the feeling of openness and unobstructed view of the rear entry area.

[Manitou]

I bet there's some untapped market for interior remodel parts/plans. Someone jump on that

[Blue~Go]

That looks nice, Hoosier. I was thinking of something similar as an option - that is, making the microwave cabinet slope like the forward ones, only stepped out slightly, which slims it down plus engages the roof wood. As a variation possibility, that roof wood does "intersect" where the main cabinets hook up to the ceiling. What I mean is that the roof wood strip that is over the microwave/fridge area is six inches wide and runs from the inside curve of that "cake tier" out toward the outside wall. So there is some room to play with there. Plus I doubt they ran it *right* up to the curve where it goes up to the top tier, because it would not have fit that well. So maybe that wood starts 1/2" to 3/4" back from the transition, and is then 6" wide...

I mocked up the upper cabinets over "new" stove and sink to have straight vertical fronts. I wanted to see how I liked that look versus the angled cabinets. Right now I'm liking the "straight" ones, but will see after living with them for awhile. Although it was a bummer at first, I'm now kind of glad the project was interrupted because now I get to live with functional mockups for awhile and see what I like/don't like/etc.

Made a bit of progress on the "over fridge" area mockup today. Testing out various styles and ideas.

First, took a scrap of Formica and velcroed it to the carpet behind the old fridge just for now (just stuck the "jabby" side of the velcro to the Formica, and it then sticks to the carpet). Also did a temporary cover (on the inside) of the refrigerator roof vent, just so uncontrolled air/mosquitoes/dust would not come in. I'll probably wait to sort that out until I have the compressor in hand to see how it all fits. Right now I'm thinking to put the compressor in the upper right of that cabinet with the maple door, and maybe an "exit" for a stove vent on the left side of that same vent area. Will have to see.

Tomorrow I may shave a bit off that upper cabinet to make it a touch less deep. I think it might be visually encroaching a bit (?). Maybe it's just the change from having nothing there for a few days. The shelf below it is cardboard.... ran out of daytime.

That cardboard "box" in the right side of the upper "cabinet" is a mockup of the remote compressor for the refrigerator. It's just under 11" x 7" x 6". Of course there will need to be a way for cooling airflow to get in there (and then exit via the roof vent), plus I'll likely use some of the sound insulation product left over from the generator box to try to keep it as quiet as possible. I imagine it will become more clear once I have it in hand, including how the piping will run from the compressor down to the refrigerator. For now, just mockups that might or might not be quite right.

Hoosier, you asked about the vent baffle for the lower refrigerator vent. I originally made one to keep water from coming in, but still allow air in. Or rather, water that did come in would flow down and back out the bottom vent row. I copied this idea that someone else had made (someone with better metal skills than me!).

I had a spare refrigerator vent, so I whipped up a similar functioning (but less nice looking) baffle out of galvanized flashing and Eternabond tape. It was completely attached to the vent grille door (the part that comes off), so the door could be removed and replaced as usual. I never actually ran the refrigerator with this in place. I know it let in *plenty* of air, but am not sure if there would have been any reduction in cooling air down low (and/or if that would have been a problem). It did keep every drop of water out (or any that got in just ran back out the bottom vent row, via the baffle.

At first I thought I would keep the baffle (which I didn't get photos of in its full original form), and use that airflow as the intake air for the new refrigerator. But as I thought about it it seemed unnecessarily complicated (letting air in, keeping water out, boxing it off from the interior) since a small compressor like that doesn't need the huge amount of airflow (plus doesn't need it to be sealed off from the interior) that an absorption refrigerator does. So I decided to first try just letting it use inside air for the "inflow" but then still using the roof vent for the exhaust (that vent seems much less problematic than the lower one). Actually, they show that it is perfectly permissible to use all inside air (intake and exhaust), but with the roof vent already there, I figured why not take advantage of it for a great chimney effect, and to exhaust heat to the outdoors.

So, I cut down the baffle and sealed it off from the interior. All I did was make cuts down the sides of the baffle with tin snips, fold it inward, and then tape over the new seam with aluminum tape. I used Eternabond tape to then seal off the top edge, which was open before. This is all "for now" (mockup city!). Any water that gets in the vent holes (which look as original from outside) will just run back out the bottom to the outdoors. If/when I decide this is the way to go, I'll probably add something like 1" x 1" stock to the original perimeter wooden frame (on the inside, where the vent screws to) and then insulation/plywood, or something similar. Again...we'll see.

Here is the newly truncated baffle, essentially closing off the vent. Oops, wait, I already have three photos in this post - see next post.

[Blue~Go]

It's not much to look at, but should do the job for now (the non-truncated orginal baffle I made - but did not photograph - lasted over a year).

[Skillet]

I have nothing to add to this thread except to say I'm enjoying the mock-up pictures. Really shows how open you guys have made it look. It's also nice seeing what's behind the appliances and walls. As someone who doesn't have a stove, just a cooktop, you'll love the storage space it provides. Another thing I realized is down-sizing the refrigerator for space makes sense. At first I couldn't believe you'd want to get rid of an almost full-size refrig. But I realize that I don't live in my Chinook and I really don't fill it up when I go out. It's also just me. So maybe when mine goes I could get along with a smaller unit.

[Blue~Go]

Hey there, Skillet,

Haven't seen you around in a little bit - was wondering what projects you were up to

Thanks for your comments - I've been hoping I wasn't just boring the socks off people here with interminable mockups and descriptions of wall construction.

Funny thing is that I have wanted to rip that refrigerator out since I first looked at a Chinook, but then when the time came to actually do it, I waffled at the last minute. I mean, it was practically new, "full sized," huge freezer, etc. etc. Who doesn't want that?

But, I went ahead, and for me, I am 100% thrilled. I love the new views out the rear door window. I disliked not only the cramped entryway, but the way the back door felt a million miles away, and like I was insulated from the outdoors (used to have a van camper, really miss the side door for those reasons). This has made a huge improvement in the way that feels and functions, for me. Just today I got ready to go for a hike, and the combination of the "hall counter" and the wider aisle (set down my backpack, etc. without having to climb over it to get out) were amazing. It used to feel like practically too much work to go outside (makes me sound lazy, heh).

A compressor refrigerator does require somewhat of a commitment to solar (unless you are always going to be driving, plugged in, or running the generator), but I wanted that anyway. Side note is that Vitrifrigo makes a larger refrigerator that would also fit (but without the "counter top space") and still be shallower than the original fridge. It's the DP 150 and is 5.3 cubic feet total, with a 1.0 cubic foot freezer that has a completely separate door, just like a "real" one at home. The dimensions are 22-1/2" deep, 20-11/16" wide, and 43-1/8" tall. (The one I have chosen is 21-7/8" deep, 30-3/16" tall, and 21-7/16" wide.)

Nice to hear your comments on the cooktop. I'm a bit undecided on whether to put the oven/range back or not, but man, it sure is inefficient on space. At any rate, the base cabinet will be sized to accept it either way, so I can change my mind.

[Skillet]

A lot of the topics lately are things I'm interested in but I have absolutely nothing to contribute. Usually because of lack of knowledge so I just sit back and read/learn. Climbing in the back is something I usually kind of apologize for when I'm showing it off to people. I tell them to think of it as a boat and it's all kind of a galley. I would love to open it up more like what you guys are doing. I'm 6'3 and 240 so I can appreciate a little more space.