Chinook RV

Hi everybody,

I’m a proud father of 4 little girls who love camping (well, the 6 week old doesn’t yet, but she will). Before kids and up until we had three, we spent a lot of time camping in our ’78 VW Westfalia. I still have that bus and love it, but we’ve obviously outgrown it. As a matter of fact, when we found out our third kid was a girl, the first thing that came to mind was that if we try again for a boy there’s no way we’d all be able to camp in the bus. The bus taught me a lot about packing light, efficient uses of space, and having a camper small enough to go just about anywhere.

First, I thought the answer was going to be a van conversion like a Sportsmobile with a custom interior to comfortably seat 4 kids and a pop-top to give them somewhere to sleep. So, I bought a low mile Ford E350 extended body with a 7.3 diesel. I found a company to build it out & convert it to 4WD, because that’d be cool and we could use it for dispersed camping.

There are some things I don’t like about going the van conversion route, not the least of which is the expense. I’d easily get to $40k to get it how we think we’d want it, not including the purchase price of the van, and after spending that there’s no guarantee that it would totally suite our needs. I wouldn’t have much of a kitchen. I wouldn’t have much interior space once we crammed in the must haves. The biggest thing though, we wouldn’t have a bathroom. I think one of the keys to keeping the 5 females aboard happy on the road and at the campsite is a bathroom and the ability to clean themselves up.

That brings me to a Chinook. I’ve loved Chinook’s since gazing at my neighbors Toyota when I was a kid in the early 80’s. A Concourse or Premier has almost everything we need; plenty of seatbelts, a kitchen, a toilet and a shower. It’s small enough and tough enough for dispersed camping, but big enough for us to be comfortable, at least by day. I wouldn’t want anything bigger than a Concourse. I’m probably at least a year away from buying anything because we’re finishing up building a house, but I’ve got about 50 craigslist alerts set up.

If you’ve read this far, you probably know what my issue is going to be with a Chinook. Sleeping for 6. So, I have this crazy idea for getting around that.

A roof top tent.

What if I mounted one to the rear section of a Chinook? Here’s an even crazier idea, what if we had access to it from the interior of the Chinook? I’ve looked everywhere to try to find somebody who has done it, to no avail. What I imagine is removing the AC unit, enlarging the opening to around 18”x18”, covering it with a boat hatch, affixing a bracket to support a removable ladder. We’d get on the roof and enter the tent, which would be oriented so the opening is facing forward. My wife and I could sleep up top. The kids could sleep downstairs (at least until they got older). We’d also have to get a lower profile hatch for the bathroom vent.
We probably wouldn’t want to do without AC, so I’m wondering if I could buy a smaller unit and mount it where the vent is forward of the original AC location. Something like a Dometic Brisk Air II if it would fit, and if the corresponding ceiling mounted plenum would fit on the inside. I’m also not totally sure if a RTT would fit, or if its vestibule would end up over the opening on the roof. I’ve even daydreamed about mounting the RTT on industrial slides so we could slid it aft when in use so everything would line up.

The obvious questions are, why not just pitch a tent on the ground, or if I insist on an RTT, why not just climb the ladder from the outside like a normal person. The truth is, I don’t have good answers to either of those questions. Other than having to enlarge the whole in the roof (and I totally get why people would hate that idea), I think it would be fun to try.

TLDR; I'm wondering about the feasability of mounting a roof top tent to the rear roof section of a Concourse or Premier and entering it from inside the Chinook.

Brett H wrote:The obvious questions are, why not just pitch a tent on the ground...

Brett H...Pitching a customized tent off the back entry seems to be a far better solution to "cutting up" the integrity of the Chinook's roof. Not to mention the fact if you and the wife roll around in your sleep too much, the RTT thing could be disastrous.
A rear entry tent could be fabricated to fit your needs, allow for way more space (a whole extra room!) and could even expand as the family needs grow.

Good luck and let us know what you decide!

I've thought about this situation a lot myself, and one of the easiest solutions is creating breakdown bunk beds.

For example, over the dinette and/or sofa sides. That gives two or three more sleeping spots. Plus the cab area is good for one or possibly even two beds, especially if the lower of two was a small basinette for the baby. You could make knockdown bunks out of aluminum or PVC tubes, and/or modified camping cots, with mounting slots attached to the top of the dinette backs. Or build a folding baseboard for the dinette. Or get clever and design a pullout dinette bunk that normally rolls up like a window shade against the dinette window.

These bunks, along with the stock California King created by the sofa + dinette seats, should easily provide the sleeping room you need.

The only downside for the parents would be getting stepped on when a kid needs to use the bathroom in the middle of the night

Kevin

Or...use the awning, zip in three walls...( shadepro.net )

Does anyone make a side room that would work with our rear entry?

--

You could always pull a trailer, of course. Others with big families have thought about going that route.

This woman in Spain pulls her business trailer behind her Chinook. Click on the photo to zoom it, and look at the neat extension passageway she has that matches up with the rear of her Concourse: For just a parent's room, you could make a trailer that was only like seven feet long

Bret--Your post has sparked memories, as well as thoughts.
Background: I am the very happy owner of a 2004 Chinook Premier (rear entrance dinette layout). My wife and I have traveled for six weeks at a time (Nova Scotia/Newfoundland, cross country from Boston to Montana, Nova Scotia-New Brunswick-Quebec-Gaspe, and most recently circumnavigated the Great Lakes. The Premier is perfect for our needs--ample room for the two of us, layout works well, yet it is small enough for us to get back into remote "tent" sites wherever we go. We tend not to hook-up (200 watt solar suitcase for charging batteries) and HATE the RV designated areas.
Relative to your post, I also grew up in a family of five kids that camped all the time. In particular, my father built two different types of campers that we used to travel around in during his two-week vacations (the bad old days). The first was a 1962 VW micro bus that he modified by cutting off the roof just behind the front bench seat all the way to the back, and mounting a rowboat upside down as the roof...giving us full head room in back, and some storage up over the front seat. In the van itself, he built benches on either side using canvas and metal tubing--a bench for sitting, a similar back that lay flat against the wall for sitting, and folded up for sleeping. There was also an additional canvas bunk (similarly made) that was attached to the wall above the middle bench/back and angled up toward the ceiling during the day, and lowered for sleeping. He liked to say that it was modeled after submarine quarters...18" between bunks--enough for rolling over. That took care of six of us, and my youngest sister slept on the bench seat in front. Crazy, huh! Drove my Mom nuts! Anyway, it worked for travel and sleeping, but we had to do all of our cooking, eating, washing, cleaning, toilet stuff at campsites.
Soooo, after a couple of years, he bagged that idea, and bought a 1952 GMC 47-passenger school bus that he proceeded to outfit as a full camper. It had a dining area (table converted to double bed for my parents, a kitchen area, enclosed bathroom, and bunks/benches that were similar to what we had in the VW. We used that for years. Plenty of room, but not something that you could squeeze into tent campsites like we can do with our Chinook currently.
All this to say, that I come to your post with current Chinook knowledge and past large family cross country travel camping experience.
From that vantage point, I would discourage you from trying to shoe-horn all six of you into the Rig itself. I think that a Premier or Concourse is the perfect vehicle for your family of six to travel in and use at a campsite. But, if I were you, I would focus on outside sleeping for the kids...pitching a regular tent or something along the lines of a custom build-out from back door or utilizing the awning, as shown in one of the pics on this post. Based on my experience, both current and past, the Concourse or Premier is just to small to have six people moving around in it as you work to set things up from daily to night activity.
I'll let this serve as am "two-cents" on the topic for now. Feel free to come back at me for more information (past or present).
David

I think a popup trailer will be great addition if you have a large family. You can remove the kitchen and other duplicated facility in the popup to make it more comfortable.

Another option that I thought about, but never actually see, is the bunk bed Chinook. I think the bunk bed is over the dinnette, but it maybe possible to add another above the sofa. On my trip to Canada last summer, I saw a family of 5 were able to do it in a Chinook with a little girl sleeping in a custom-made bed across the front seats, and the rest of them sleeping in the regular beds.

I think with a small RV and that many people, it can be done, but at the expense of hassle of converting every morning and evening. Walking around while having everyone doing the bathroom/brush teeth/etc can be difficult if not coordinated well. Same thing will happen in the morning.

Welcome! This is an interesting topic, and I can tell you've thought about it quite a bit. I didn't grow up in a family of six and no VW bus back then (we had a cabin instead but I always wanted a bus!). I have had a camper van though, and now have my Concourse.

I'm also going to be on the "I don't think it's the best candidate" side, and here's why. Well, but wait, I do want to say that you seem like the type to think outside the box and make things work, and I know that can go a loong way. People circumnavigate in boats the size of a bathtub. But on the other hand if someone asked me if that sounded good, I'd probably suggest something a little larger (but not huge, maybe 24').

So anyway, why do I vote something else:

1) You mentioned seatbelts. Now obviously many of us grew up traveling in vehicles that didn't even HAVE seatbelts, but now they do, and when you put one on you tend to think it's going to give you a margin of safety. Well, I would argue that the people in the rear seatbelts in a Chinook really don't, at least not how we think of it. I mean picture yourself belted in on the couch (lap belt only of course), and then having a head-on collision. You'd be moving *sideways* with only a lap belt. At that point, I might rather just fly free. Or if you're at a dinette, even if you are the one facing forward, the table is right in your face (no shoulder belt).

With a van (if you have a transformer type) you can have six seats with proper belts (driver, passenger, then four in back).

2) As it comes, the Concourse and Premier are not very far from their GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating). I've customized mine quite a bit now, but when it bought it it was bone stock. On the way home from picking it up I weighed at a scale. I was at 9,940# on a 10,700# GVWR (older ones may be lower rated). That's basically 700# until the vehicle is overweight. Two adults and four children.... that's maybe 400# or so, leaving you around 350# for water/waste, food, clothing, supplies, and anything you add. That seems marginal to me.

The reason the margin is small is that it's only an E-350 chassis. Many vans are already an E-350, but without 3,000+ pounds of "house" on top. So you can have a much larger margin on the weight rating. The amount left over was fine for Chinook's intended use (older couple, probably have a home base, out "touring").

As an aside, my camper van (which was a regular body Ford van, not even an extended body) had more storage, more range, and more weight capacity.

3) I have not used a rooftop tent, but somehow I can't imagine using one all the way up on top of the Chinook in much wind or inclement weather (and I do like tenting). And it's going to wobble around (the chassis that is) with two adults way up/back there.

4) You mention "small enough to go anywhere." I do love to get off the beaten path, and I do have a Chinook, but there were a lot more places I'd go with my camper van. First of all, it was narrower; second, it was lower, height-wise; and third, the duallies can make it awkward. Fourth, and perhaps most noticeable, the Chinook has a long overhang, and the dump valves are behind the rear wheels. It is very easy to drag the stern. So why did I change from a van? Only two reasons, and sometimes I wish I had gone with another van: One is that I'm traveling for long periods of time and wanted a little "pacing room," and two is that my van was a pop top and it was difficult for me to pop the top (bad shoulders).

Okay, so that was all the negative stuff. Now what would I do if it were me and my family? I'm going to assume you have a home base, since I don't think you mentioned full time traveling. So you are looking for an escape pod, something to replace the spirit of your VW bus, but with a bit more room. Here are the ideas I'd be floating in my mind:

1) Sportsmobile type van (possibly home brew or built by another company, but that style). My pop top Ford van would sleep four without blinking an eye, and the two up top had a private room (vs. the all one room of the Chinook). I traveled with a buddy for awhile and it was like we had separate suites! If it had been a long body van, I can imagine adding two more kid-sized sleeping areas. If you had something like a "50" layout, you'd have at two or three more forward facing belted seating positions (with no table or etc. just ahead). I'm sure there are more creative layouts I haven't thought of, since I travel with one or two.

2) Passenger van towing a small trailer. Captain's seats for all, with shoulder belts a real roof, lots of windows, could sleep you all in a pinch. Trailer could be a typical camper trailer, or maybe a converted cargo trailer where you would normally sleep. You'd have the option for a separate "kids' room" as they get older (grown ups in one rig, kids in the other). Another advantage to this is you can interchange the tow vehicle if it gets old or etc. You could also add a roof top tent if you wanted to.

3) Slightly larger Class C and a separate car. This probably wouldn't be my first choice just for weekend trips, but I mention it because I recently saw a family of five who travel this way. One parent drives the Class C and the other drives the car (in their case mini van but you could get something with better clearance or maybe drive a car you already own). The kids are all belted in with the modern safety appurtenances and no-one has to ride in the RV behind the cab. Then they have a run-around car when they get there. I realize this may be not quite "camping" enough, but figured I'd throw it out there.

BG

PS: One thing I didn't add up top, but I have to run so I'm just going to add it down here is that at this point you are probably thinking "but geez, we did it in a tiny micro bus, and now you're saying a Chinook would be cramped?" I think a couple of factors (for me at least) is that with a van, the inside is out, and the outside is in, if you know what I mean. You have that huge side entry. So it's no thing to just expand slightly to the outside. But the Chinook has a rear door, that door doesn't even open all the way (unless you get one from the 70's), and the entry is tiny and cramped (until you saw your refrigerator in half and remove it ). I like my privacy, so I kind of wanted an "inside" and an "outside" that were distinct, but I don't have a large family. And even so I do miss my big side door sometimes.

I just realized I didn't actually answer your question about the roof top tent. I'd say that yes, you could cut a hole in the roof and add a tent. You'd want to use a good quality hatch (likely marine), and make sure you had adequate support (putting the tent near the rear allows the bulkhead walls to help with that, but you would want to reinforce the opening area). I still wouldn't, for the reasons outlined above (weight capacity, safety, nimbleness, and crampedness), but you may choose differently, in which case break out the Sawzall

That brings back memories. My parents had five boys. (poor Mom!)

At first we used to drive from NC to Colorado each summer in a 1955 Chevy, with feet hanging out the windows. That was back before the Interstate system was finished. And no AC!

Later, Dad customized two vans... a 1961 VW bus and a 1962 Ford Econoline, with extra seating, table and ice box, for traveling. Once at a campground, most of us we slept in a Sears tent, while my oldest two brothers slept in a van top luggage/ sleeper box.

Nowadays, with kids having to be safely strapped into seats the whole time, driving something like the Chinook so they can stretch, use the bathroom, and a parent can make snacks and change diapers, all without having to stop, is perfect.

Anyway, I got sidetracked. I came back to joke that it's too bad Chinook didn't continue to make the rare Constellation model, with its cabover bed: