Chinook RV

BTW, if you measure the voltage drop before and after the ground connection, and do not see much, then you can leave the ground connection alone without having to cut and clean and redo the connection. This is because if the connection is poor, there will be some resistant across the ground connection, and you can measure it with a voltmeter. (think of the poor ground connection as the shunt for an ammeter). If there is very little voltage drop, the connection (shunt) is very conductive, and there is no need to redo it.

Clay, he is see LVD-out of 9.10v. I don't know if that is with the converter off or on, but that is way too low to charge his battery. The LVD V-in is 12.47v, so that is like a disconnected battery with no load, but it is also too low to charge it properly. Something *is* wrong in his electrical.

VTSweetpea wrote: September 2nd, 2020, 9:44 am Update- Bypassing the LVD by connecting the Vin to the Vout wires resulted in no change. Still no charge going to batts.
Redid all the connections in the back of the PD4645 after cleaning the wires. Still no change.
Checked the ground connections on the chassis nothing loose. I was going to clean and redo each one but the connections are rust welded. I'd have to cut the wire to each ground, remove the old connector from the chassis frame, install a new connector and then reconnect each of the grounds. Not ready to do that unless I'm sure that's the root of my issue.

Puzzling. Does your PD4645 have the "Wizard Mode Button" on the circuit board with the fuses? This button is used to manually change the charging step. On mine it was in the lower right corner, a tiny brown round momentary contact push button (it doesn't stay down, just press and release), next to the light showing the charging mode.

Assuming you do, could you try these steps? I know some repeat from last time, but each time we test it is best to verify we are getting the same results on steps we expect the same results.

0) keep the connection that bypasses the LVD for all the steps below, better to just leave it out even though it doesn't appear to be involved.

1) No charging anywhere (engine off, generator off, shore not connected).
a) Measure voltage at batteries
b) Measure voltage at dist panel (BATT+ and BATT-)
c) Turn on something using DC power. Turn on 3 or 4 of the overhead lights, which pull quite a bit if they are still the fluorescent, or else open the cabinets for their lights which pull a few amps. Measure at BATT+ and BATT- again while devices is on.
d) Measure voltage at batteries again, while devices still on, to see how far down they pull the batteries.
e) turn off the devices

2) Connect to shore
a) Measure voltage at batteries
b) Measure voltage at dist panel (BATT+ and BATT-)
c) Turn on same devices as before. Measure at BATT+ and BATT- again while devices is on.
d) Measure voltage at batteries again, while devices still on. I want to make sure the devices are using the shore, not pulling down the batteries.
e) turn off the devices

3) Still connected to shore.
a) Press Wizard Mode Button. Light should go from blinking to steady, indicating it is now in Boost (Bulk) mode at 14.4V. Is it steady?
b) Measure voltage at dist panel (BATT+ and BATT-)
c) Measure voltage at batteries
c) Turn on same devices as before. Measure at BATT+ and BATT- again while devices is on.
e) Measure voltage at batteries, while devices still on.
e) turn off the devices

What I'm looking for is:
a) does using a few devices, that use at least 3-4-5 amps, pull down the voltage any?
b) does jumping the charger up to 14.4V have any significant effect on the voltage at the batteries? I.e. if there is any kind of connection between the charger and batteries I would expect to see some kind of increase when charger goes from 13.7 to 14.4, which is what the alternator was charging at.

Oh, and if you're still thinking of using a 12 AWG wire, it should be fairly safe for testing with the charging, just to see if any charging is taking place. Check the wire's markings, but with the normal 90C temp rating insulation a 12 AWG can handle up to 40 amps (the Ancor marine wire I use is 105C rated, for 45 amps max). Of course as the wire run gets longer, you're going to have a greater voltage drop than using an 8 AWG, but for 10 feet it is still only 3% at 20 amps (prob adding 3% to your already 3-4%). Because of the extra drop, the test will not be accurate for what voltage you might want, just for showing that the wire run is going all the way to the batteries and some kind of charging should take place. That doesn't mean I'd keep the charging going for more than a few minutes at a time, just in case the PD tries to pump its full amps to charge (mine never went over maybe 15 amps charging, ever, while I had it, but maybe that was just me never letting the batteries discharge that far down).

I really like the systematic method, but I feel that VTsweetpea is working on other issues, and wonder if he can cheat and do the following instead:

Disconnect the batteries by at the negative terminals, and disconnect the solar panel by removing the fuse. Turn on the converter/charger by plug in to shore power. This way, the only source of DC is his PD4645, and the only drains are his DC appliances. Now, with one of the voltmeter probes at the DC panel BATT neg, he should be able to probe around the various points along the path from the PD4645 to the LVD to the battery to find out where does the voltage happens, correct? There will be expected voltage drop due to the resistance in the wire, so he will be looking for unexplained drop. I think it will be easier for him to do the troubleshooting, and enable us to pin point where he need to take a closer look. What do you all say?

If the voltage drop is detected at the LVD V-out, then use the 12 AWG wire to parallel the 8 AWG, and see if the issue disappeared. If it does, then maybe there some damage to his wiring between the DC panel and the LVD. That will be one of the most simple scenarios.

Update for you guys - Chin-k I will try your "cheat" as soon as I can. Altho I wonder what you all think about the following things I have done:

1- PD Tech Support suggested that I run a jumper from the Conv+ terminal on their board directly to the positive side of my battery bank. I did (actually found a long enough piece of 10 AWG !). Actually I ran the jumper from the PD Conv+ terminal and bolted it to the LVD in lead which I disconnected from the LVD. So the path was Conv+ to LVDin to Batt bank +. With this setup, I plugged into shore power and took readings. At the PD board I was seeing 14.5 volts at both the Batt+ and Conv+ terminals. But at the battery bank I was only reading 12.5 Volts. Emailed results to PD but haven't heard back from them yet.

2- Today I wanted to check readings when the generator is running for one more time. To start, I disconnected shore power and then took readings at the battery bank and the PD terminals before starting the genny. Interestingly, I was only seeing 10.55 volts at both of the PD terms ( Conv+ and Batt+). But the battery bank was showing 12.5 volts. WTF?! Of course, after starting the genny, the voltage at the PD terms went up to 14.5 volts but the battery bank stayed at 12.5.

I feel like I can't see the forest for the trees. All this data is probably pointing right at my issue but I'm not seeing it!
It's interesting in both 1 and 2 above the voltage differences between the battery bank and the terminals on the PD board seems to always be about 2 volts. I have no idea if that's significant or even relevant!

Have you load tested each battery? Sometimes a bad or weak battery will really mess up voltage readings. Have you disconnected one Battery and tested for voltage drop?

VTSweetpea wrote: September 5th, 2020, 1:21 pm Update for you guys - Chin-k I will try your "cheat" as soon as I can. Altho I wonder what you all think about the following things I have done:

1- PD Tech Support suggested that I run a jumper from the Conv+ terminal on their board directly to the positive side of my battery bank. I did (actually found a long enough piece of 10 AWG !). Actually I ran the jumper from the PD Conv+ terminal and bolted it to the LVD in lead which I disconnected from the LVD. So the path was Conv+ to LVDin to Batt bank +. With this setup, I plugged into shore power and took readings. At the PD board I was seeing 14.5 volts at both the Batt+ and Conv+ terminals. But at the battery bank I was only reading 12.5 Volts. Emailed results to PD but haven't heard back from them yet.

2- Today I wanted to check readings when the generator is running for one more time. To start, I disconnected shore power and then took readings at the battery bank and the PD terminals before starting the genny. Interestingly, I was only seeing 10.55 volts at both of the PD terms ( Conv+ and Batt+). But the battery bank was showing 12.5 volts. WTF?! Of course, after starting the genny, the voltage at the PD terms went up to 14.5 volts but the battery bank stayed at 12.5.

I feel like I can't see the forest for the trees. All this data is probably pointing right at my issue but I'm not seeing it!
It's interesting in both 1 and 2 above the voltage differences between the battery bank and the terminals on the PD board seems to always be about 2 volts. I have no idea if that's significant or even relevant!

To me all points lead to your charger being fried, possibly when whatever caused the burnt wires. I think the charger is trying to charge but not putting out any amps, so the voltage at the battery is "not impressed" with the effort. In the water analogy, it is like trying to fill a lake with a needle jet, high pressure (voltage) but hardly any water (current). If the DC wiring or the LVD were at fault, your DC appliances would not work on battery, because the same wires used for charging are used to power your appliances in the opposite direction.

VTSweetpea wrote: September 5th, 2020, 1:21 pm 1- PD Tech Support suggested that I run a jumper from the Conv+ terminal on their board directly to the positive side of my battery bank. I did (actually found a long enough piece of 10 AWG !). Actually I ran the jumper from the PD Conv+ terminal and bolted it to the LVD in lead which I disconnected from the LVD. So the path was Conv+ to LVDin to Batt bank +. With this setup, I plugged into shore power and took readings. At the PD board I was seeing 14.5 volts at both the Batt+ and Conv+ terminals. But at the battery bank I was only reading 12.5 Volts. Emailed results to PD but haven't heard back from them yet.

2- Today I wanted to check readings when the generator is running for one more time. To start, I disconnected shore power and then took readings at the battery bank and the PD terminals before starting the genny. Interestingly, I was only seeing 10.55 volts at both of the PD terms ( Conv+ and Batt+). But the battery bank was showing 12.5 volts. WTF?! Of course, after starting the genny, the voltage at the PD terms went up to 14.5 volts but the battery bank stayed at 12.5.

I feel like I can't see the forest for the trees. All this data is probably pointing right at my issue but I'm not seeing it!
It's interesting in both 1 and 2 above the voltage differences between the battery bank and the terminals on the PD board seems to always be about 2 volts. I have no idea if that's significant or even relevant!

Based on the approximately 2 volts difference you are now getting in both cases, I would say one of your connections is poor, introducing a larger than normal drop between battery and distribution panel. Could be from a poor or loose ground connection. I'm going with loose, almost broken, since you seemed to have variations over the past week or two.

But could be in lvd to battery, as well. If you have enough 10 awg wire, I'd make 2 cables and run them directly from battery through window or cab door to the Batt+/Conv+ and Batt-/Conv-. Doesn't matter which, as the batt and conv connections seem fine (always in sync with each other). Then if that works, keep negative wire and move positive to lvd-in. If that works, then go back to original positive wires, while keeping the new negative bypass. If that works, then you know its in your ground system and have to start fixing every frame ground you can find.

I had not previously considered, but the DC devices like the lights might very well still work even when they are only receiving 10 volts.

Sounds like three chiefs are making a broth here

Anyway, I think Clay bought up a very important point. You need make sure the PD4645 is not defective (per Clay's hypothesis).

Now, if the PD4645 is damaged, you should not be able to charge the battery at all, even if you attach the battery *directly* to it (without the LVD and the long length of wire). Since you have the wire, you may want to test that. That is, plug your rig on shore power, and connect the converter outputs (white and black, I think they are 10 AWG). There is not a lot of slacks, so you may need to take off the cover and push the wires out on the bottom to get better access. Just do this with one battery, to make life easier. This is almost identical to what you have done already, but instead of going thru the LVD and use the existing ground connection, you are moving the battery closer to the converter, and eliminate the LVD. I think the tech from PD is guiding you in the right direction. Remember, coverter to battery directly, both ground (white) and positive (black ) wires. No LVD, no rig wiring.

if you were able to charge the battery properly with a short length of your new wire (proper voltage at the battery terminal), then you know the PD4645 is putting out sufficient voltage and current. I think it is very important to get this confirmed. With that out of the way, the next thing you do is to check the LVD. It is a bit of pain with all the wiring, so this is why I suggest you do the LVD test with your own long length of wire from the converter to the LVD, by pass the 8 AWG red wire. If you then conclude that both the PD4645 and the LVD are fine, then it **has** to be the wiring. Then you can do the cheat and see where the voltage drop happened, and fixed the connection.

I think you will find that both the converter and the LVD are fine, and your issue is solely due to wiring/connection. If Clay is correct, and PD admit that their converter is defective, I am sure they will ship a brand new one out to you right away. They don't do silly game of "I won't send you a new one until you send the defective one to me first etc." They will take care of you, but you need to make sure it is their fault.

Hey Guys,
I trust you all had a good and safe holiday. To be honest, I took a break from dealing with this issue for the weekend. But I'll be back on it tomorrow. Intend to try every one of your suggestions to see if I can nail this down. Have not heard back from PD, so will just put them on the back burner.

Two things I want to make you aware of in the interim:

1- My battery configuration is 2- 6 volt deep cycle batts in series to supply my coach 12 volt system. Don't know if this is even pertinent to the issue but if it is, I apologize for not stating that to begin with.

2- Because the PD is not charging my batts, I was concerned that they would dishcarge too low. So I hooked up an external 4 amp trickle charger over the weekend and left it on overnight. I hooked it up with the batts still in the coach and connected but with the system on store. After 24 hours, I checked the charger and found that it had only charged the batts to 75%! So then I put another charger on the batts and set it for 4amps charging. Next day, it too had stopped charging at 75%. Put both chargers on 12 volt batts in my other vehicles and in less than 8 hours they both reported 100% charging done! So why would the coach batts only charge to 75%? Is this another clue as to what the problem is. Or another problem?

As long as the two 6V golf cart batteries are lead acid, it should be fine.

For the #2, it really depends on the capacity of the batteries in the Chinook and in the other vehicle. If they are identical batteries, then I would like to know more. If they are different, then I would start a new thread if you want to know the different in charging time as a function of charger characteristics and battery characteristics.

For your current issue, you need to find out why the voltage drop is more than expected from the resistance in the wire (~4%). You can do that without the batteries connected, but only have the PD 4645 running. I would avoid adding in too many variables, and once you verify the connections and wiring is fine from the converter, then you can add in component and see if things go wrong only with the additional components.