The engine temps don't sound alarming, but (presuming all is well with the rest of your cooling system) they sound a bit warm to me given the coolish ambient temp (low 60's). Just to compare, if I'm pulling a car or trailer (around 4,000# average), and it's in the 80's or even low 90's, AND I'm pulling up a long grade (say 4,000' to 8,500'), I'll be at 198º, then it will climb to around 202º at which point the cooling fan will come on for 30 seconds or so and I'll be back at 198º. I would probably turn off the AC just to remove that load (just for the big climb). This is with the spare on the front (which doesn't seem to make much difference) and the big transmission cooler -- which did make a difference in that my cooling fan comes on a bit more often (mostly only noticeable in hot weather towing up big passes). The latter makes sense as the transmission cooler is throwing heat onto the radiator, basically (however the trans does not have a cooling fan to help it but the engine cooling does).
So it's not that your engine temps sound so much higher than mine; but it's that you are reaching them on a cool day, no trailer, no big mountain pass. Not that I'm saying you have to worry, but just that it sounds like you may be experiencing some air (or coolant) flow issue and what if outside conditions were worse?
On the transmission, I'm no expert, but the feeling I get is that you want to stay below 200º for sure, and then beyond that, the cooler the better (as long as you are over a basic cold minimum - maybe 110º or so?). Do you plan to travel in hotter climes? Big mountains? If not maybe it's fine. Before the cooler I think I might have seen 185º or so? It's been years since then so I can't remember exactly. Now I can't break about 172º in any conditions I've driven in.
I'm nearly sure my trans cooler would fit your rig as a 2005 E-350 is basically a 1997 E-350. Also the same exact setup fit my buddy's 2003 E-450 RV with V-10 (he liked my setup and duplicated it). I chose that trans cooler because I knew someone who did a lot of heavy towing with a '99 E-350 V-10. (Much heavier than I do, but I like to see my trans temps cool as a cucumber.) I also don't know if too cool would be an issue in cold climes. The coldest weather I've driven in with it is probably the 30's. No problem then.
BUT, maybe given your bikes you don't want that "waste" heat from the trans cooler on your radiator. I think there are trans coolers that mount more remotely and use fans to circulate (of course *where* always comes to mind with a van cab).
Scan Gauge II, for monitoring engine/trans temps and more
Re: Scan Gauge II, for monitoring engine/trans temps and more
Blue...thanks for your comments--helpful as always.
Is the heavy-duty transmission cooler that you have (which, I assume is mounted in front of the AC condenser) a stacked plate type cooler? My reading indicates that they are the most efficient, and since it doesn't look like I have enough clearance between the AC condenser and the hood latch mechanism to mount a cooler with a fan, I'll need the most efficient type I can get. Currently, there is a 14" by 7" (approx) tube-and-fin type unit in place. If you do have a stacked plate type unit in your Rig, and it works as well as you describe with your tire mounted up front, then I am inclined to go that route. Only other alternative I can come up with would be to mount a fan on the front of the grill...not at all ideal--particularly in light of the fact that my wife will sue me for divorce on grounds of a complete lack of aesthetics!...the PVC pipes I mounted were bad enough...a fan in front would put her over the edge!
David
Is the heavy-duty transmission cooler that you have (which, I assume is mounted in front of the AC condenser) a stacked plate type cooler? My reading indicates that they are the most efficient, and since it doesn't look like I have enough clearance between the AC condenser and the hood latch mechanism to mount a cooler with a fan, I'll need the most efficient type I can get. Currently, there is a 14" by 7" (approx) tube-and-fin type unit in place. If you do have a stacked plate type unit in your Rig, and it works as well as you describe with your tire mounted up front, then I am inclined to go that route. Only other alternative I can come up with would be to mount a fan on the front of the grill...not at all ideal--particularly in light of the fact that my wife will sue me for divorce on grounds of a complete lack of aesthetics!...the PVC pipes I mounted were bad enough...a fan in front would put her over the edge!
David
Re: Scan Gauge II, for monitoring engine/trans temps and more
Relative to trying to keep transmission fluid temp down, I'm wondering if anyone has tried going to a lower set thermostat? I believe the stock thermostat for my 2004 6.8 liter v10 is 195 degrees. Is anyone happily using one with a lower setting? I've read that some go as low as 170...I'm thinking of 185. Thoughts?
David
David
Re: Scan Gauge II, for monitoring engine/trans temps and more
After a good bit of experimentation involving 4" pvc pipes mounted to my front bike rack in an effort to get air directed to the front grill (blocked by the covers that are necessary to protect my electric assist Copenhagen Wheels), I decided that a better, and much more elegant solution would be to install "push" fans on the plate and fin transmission cooler that is mounted in front of the AC condenser. Given the dimensions of the trans cooler, and the position of the hood latch (including allowance for "swing" when hood is closed, the largest fans I could mount were a couple of Spal 5.2" "push" fans that push at total of 330 cfm. (see picture attached).
I mounted the bikes this morning and went for a test run on The 90 for a couple of hours to see how this worked. It was sunny and about 72 degrees. I drove for a couple of hours on the interstate and then spent another hour cruising some hilly back roads. The results were not as good as I was hoping for, but, I think the readings are "good enough"--as long as I am sure to change the transmission fluid every 25,000 miles or so. By that I mean, I don't think these readings will cause me trouble.
The water temp reading on my scan gauge II ran between 204-211 with some spikes up as high as 224 before being brought back down by the radiator cooling fan. And the transmission fluid temp was consistently between 195-200 with a few spikes as high as 204.
I would be interested in hearing how this compares with the readings others of you might be seeing on your scan gauges...and what you think of those readings.
When I got home and checked under the hood to make sure fans were still tight (YES), the heat coming from the engine compartment, not alarming, but hot, made me wonder if I couldn't further reduce my temps by venting heat from the compartment via a couple of Run Cool vents mounted on the hood. Some subsequent reading seems to indicate that this does indeed work. So, I would love to know if any one on the Forum has installed Run Cool vents (or similar) and what their experience with them has been.
Thanks
David
I mounted the bikes this morning and went for a test run on The 90 for a couple of hours to see how this worked. It was sunny and about 72 degrees. I drove for a couple of hours on the interstate and then spent another hour cruising some hilly back roads. The results were not as good as I was hoping for, but, I think the readings are "good enough"--as long as I am sure to change the transmission fluid every 25,000 miles or so. By that I mean, I don't think these readings will cause me trouble.
The water temp reading on my scan gauge II ran between 204-211 with some spikes up as high as 224 before being brought back down by the radiator cooling fan. And the transmission fluid temp was consistently between 195-200 with a few spikes as high as 204.
I would be interested in hearing how this compares with the readings others of you might be seeing on your scan gauges...and what you think of those readings.
When I got home and checked under the hood to make sure fans were still tight (YES), the heat coming from the engine compartment, not alarming, but hot, made me wonder if I couldn't further reduce my temps by venting heat from the compartment via a couple of Run Cool vents mounted on the hood. Some subsequent reading seems to indicate that this does indeed work. So, I would love to know if any one on the Forum has installed Run Cool vents (or similar) and what their experience with them has been.
Thanks
David
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Re: Scan Gauge II, for monitoring engine/trans temps and more
Are the Spal 5.2" fan 5.2 inch in diameter? Thinking about the application on an armchair, here is what is going thru my mind. Let me know if it make no sense, or not logical.
At 330 cfm, it is a column of air 5.2 inch diameter, and 2238 feet long in a minute. That is like 25.4 mph in my calculation. So if you are moving faster than 25 MPH, it is not going to help you much unless the surface that you want to cool is completely/partially blocked off. Maybe the cfm will go up if you are moving, but I don't know if it really going to make that much of a difference. But if you are idling the rig, then it will be much better mechanism to cool since there is no much "natural" airflow.
At 330 cfm, it is a column of air 5.2 inch diameter, and 2238 feet long in a minute. That is like 25.4 mph in my calculation. So if you are moving faster than 25 MPH, it is not going to help you much unless the surface that you want to cool is completely/partially blocked off. Maybe the cfm will go up if you are moving, but I don't know if it really going to make that much of a difference. But if you are idling the rig, then it will be much better mechanism to cool since there is no much "natural" airflow.
2000 Concourse dinette, on 1999 6.8L Ford E350 Triton V-10 Chassis
Re: Scan Gauge II, for monitoring engine/trans temps and more
The Spal 5.2's are 5.510" in diameter. And thanks for giving me the calculation info of fan cfm to mph (I NEVER would have been able to figure that out...Political Science Major that I was). The benefit in my application is greater, due to the fact that air flow to the grill is indeed blocked by the covers for the bikes (see attached pic). The good news is that there is quite a bit of room between the grill and the bikes, so I have some air to work with.
David
David
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Re: Scan Gauge II, for monitoring engine/trans temps and more
Normal running (moderately loaded V10 Chinook with spare on front, moderate weather) is as follows:
198ºF water temp.
175ºF trans temp (at least if memory serves). (larger trans cooler -- it was probably around 180º-185º before)
As things add up (very hot weather and running AC, big grades, towing 4,000# or so) then it's more like this:
198ºF water temp, with excursions to 202ºF at which time the cooling fan will bring it back to 198º. It may stay at 202º for a minute or so, and is brought down in that same time frame. So the excursions are shortish. In very hot weather with big loads I will turn off AC on uphill grades. But if I left it on water temp would not increase; rather the cooling fan cycle would be more frequent.
185º trans temp (especially if towing up long grade in hot weather).
*****
Water temps were about the same before the front spare and the larger trans cooler. Spare did not change that to speak of. Nor did trans cooler. But the big trans cooler somewhat increased the cooling fan cycling in hot weather/big grade type towing (it throws some waste trans heat at the radiator). But then I figure the trans has no other way to help itself whereas the engine does have the cooling fan.
So in short your temps sound kind of hot to me. I'd have a cow if I saw 22xº on the water temp!
Also, my previous camper van had the 5.4 V8 version of our V10. That ran about the same as my Chinook, temp wise, except I never added a larger trans cooler. So if I ran a big grade towing I might see 200º trans temp at the top (I'd pull over and let it cool). I also remember seeing 209ª once on the water temp sitting in backed up traffic on a Houston freeway in hot weather. Normally it was around 198-200.
198ºF water temp.
175ºF trans temp (at least if memory serves). (larger trans cooler -- it was probably around 180º-185º before)
As things add up (very hot weather and running AC, big grades, towing 4,000# or so) then it's more like this:
198ºF water temp, with excursions to 202ºF at which time the cooling fan will bring it back to 198º. It may stay at 202º for a minute or so, and is brought down in that same time frame. So the excursions are shortish. In very hot weather with big loads I will turn off AC on uphill grades. But if I left it on water temp would not increase; rather the cooling fan cycle would be more frequent.
185º trans temp (especially if towing up long grade in hot weather).
*****
Water temps were about the same before the front spare and the larger trans cooler. Spare did not change that to speak of. Nor did trans cooler. But the big trans cooler somewhat increased the cooling fan cycling in hot weather/big grade type towing (it throws some waste trans heat at the radiator). But then I figure the trans has no other way to help itself whereas the engine does have the cooling fan.
So in short your temps sound kind of hot to me. I'd have a cow if I saw 22xº on the water temp!
Also, my previous camper van had the 5.4 V8 version of our V10. That ran about the same as my Chinook, temp wise, except I never added a larger trans cooler. So if I ran a big grade towing I might see 200º trans temp at the top (I'd pull over and let it cool). I also remember seeing 209ª once on the water temp sitting in backed up traffic on a Houston freeway in hot weather. Normally it was around 198-200.
1999 Concourse
Re: Scan Gauge II, for monitoring engine/trans temps and more
My quest for lower radiator and transmission fluid temps continued this week, with, I'm pleased to report results that are much more (nearly exactly) in the range that Blue-Go just mentioned. First of all I ran the Rig up to NH with the grill wide open (no bikes) to set a decent baseline. In the 70's, I saw consistent 192 degree water, and 175 degree transmission fluid...transmission fans off at highway speed (thanks again Chin_k for your calculation showing that fans are basically useless at highway speeds).
Then, I mounted both bikes on the rack in front with covers--BUT this time, I put the back wheel (Copenhagen motor) on the outside) and opened up the cover in the middle to give a clear path of air to the grill. I had avoided this up to now because mounting the bikes in this manner was definitely covering the headlights. Thus, with a path for air to move through the bike frames (only back Copenhagen Wheel covered), I headed out to western Mass on the 90 to see what temps I would get with this new configuration. And, low and behold--I hit the numbers I was looking for: 196-198 degree water temp, with the occasional spike to 202 for a very short time (until the fan brings it back down), and a pretty steady range of 178-185 degrees on the transmission temp with an occasional spike (seemingly brought back down when the big radiator fan kicks in) to 190. Again, as per Chin_k, I am not running the trans fans at highway speeds...but I have found that when I run them below 45 mph, they do indeed cause the trans fluid temp to drop a few degrees.
SO, now all that remains is for me to install a good set of snow plow headlights (with turn signals) up high so that they can be seen over the covered bike wheels. Plan at the moment is to mount a front grill guard and use mounting clamps to install a set of Truck-Lite Snow Plow Lights (80800 or 80805). Once done, I think I will be in business, and we can put this tread to bed....or at least the part of it that pertains to transmission fluid temps!
David
Then, I mounted both bikes on the rack in front with covers--BUT this time, I put the back wheel (Copenhagen motor) on the outside) and opened up the cover in the middle to give a clear path of air to the grill. I had avoided this up to now because mounting the bikes in this manner was definitely covering the headlights. Thus, with a path for air to move through the bike frames (only back Copenhagen Wheel covered), I headed out to western Mass on the 90 to see what temps I would get with this new configuration. And, low and behold--I hit the numbers I was looking for: 196-198 degree water temp, with the occasional spike to 202 for a very short time (until the fan brings it back down), and a pretty steady range of 178-185 degrees on the transmission temp with an occasional spike (seemingly brought back down when the big radiator fan kicks in) to 190. Again, as per Chin_k, I am not running the trans fans at highway speeds...but I have found that when I run them below 45 mph, they do indeed cause the trans fluid temp to drop a few degrees.
SO, now all that remains is for me to install a good set of snow plow headlights (with turn signals) up high so that they can be seen over the covered bike wheels. Plan at the moment is to mount a front grill guard and use mounting clamps to install a set of Truck-Lite Snow Plow Lights (80800 or 80805). Once done, I think I will be in business, and we can put this tread to bed....or at least the part of it that pertains to transmission fluid temps!
David
Re: Scan Gauge II, for monitoring engine/trans temps and more
Two things that you need to consider with the snow plow lights is to make sure they are DOT approved for highway, and that they are mounted properly (e.g., not too high that they will blind people coming toward you.) I wonder if there are clear cover for the Copenhagen wheels, or one with clear windows for the head lights? Or is it the hubs that will be blocking the light?
2000 Concourse dinette, on 1999 6.8L Ford E350 Triton V-10 Chassis
Re: Scan Gauge II, for monitoring engine/trans temps and more
Chin_k...good/useful comments. I have only considered DOT-approved plow lights, and, in deference to my fellow travelers headed in the opposite direction, I ruled out LED lights as being just too damn bright. As for mounting...they will be mounted just above the top of the existing headlight lens...just high enough to project out over the covers, and I will work with my Ford Dealer to direct them properly (Ive had the good fortune to have a couple of good mechanics at the dealership take an interest in me and my RIG). The disk of the Copenhagen itself comes nearly 3/4 up the existing headlight lens, and I have yet to find anything capable of protecting my Wheel other than the Skinz covers I use (black). So, as far as I can figure, Plow lights it will have to be.
David
David